Saint Paul Parks appeal hearing transcript

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

Yeah.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Hey.

VIDEOGRAPHER:

Hey.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

How we doing?

PARKS DIRECTOR:

What's up, sir? What are you doing here?

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

I'm his attorney for the day. How are you?

PARKS DIRECTOR:

That's awesome!

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

Nice to see you.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

We're friends.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

How we doing?

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Good. How are you?

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

Pretty good.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Good.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

Nice to meet you.

DEPUTY PARKS DIRECTOR:

[Name redacted].

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

Nice to meet you.

VIDEOGRAPHER:

Hi, I'm [name redacted].

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Hi, [name redacted]. Hi. Nice to meet you. Hi, [name redacted]. Nice to meet you.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Sorry for the weird setup in here.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

No, you're good. I was gonna say—

PARKS DIRECTOR:

We need to do, like, the six-feet-away type thing.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

Yeah! You gonna stand in the middle too?

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Yeah, whoever's talking, stand in the middle.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

Yeah, like one of those awkward first-day things in class.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

In true Saint Paul fashion, [name redacted] and I know each other.

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

A couple decades ago, back in our young, youthful days.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

So, surprised to see you in here, but also love it. That's great. Maybe let's do a quick around the room, because there's a lot of names—or a lot of folks—here. I'll start. [Name redacted], parks director for the City of Saint Paul.

DEPUTY PARKS DIRECTOR:

[Name redacted], deputy director of parks.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

Josh Liljenquist.

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

The accused.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

Yes.

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

[Name redacted]. I work for [law firm redacted], just up the street at [office location redacted]. I'm his attorney.

JOSH'S WIFE:

[Name redacted], Josh's wife.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Nice to meet you.

VIDEOGRAPHER:

I'm [name redacted], Josh's videographer.

WITNESS:

[Name redacted]. Um, I've filmed with Josh before as well.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

So, awesome.

ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY:

[Name redacted]. I'm an assistant city attorney with the City Attorney's Office, and I work with the—

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

Sorry, you said [name redacted]?

ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY:

Yeah, [name redacted].

PARKS DIRECTOR:

[Name redacted]. Um, Josh, you received the letter from us, um, and as part of the process you have offered—or, uh, wanted the appeal, so that's what this is today. So I appreciate you coming in. Um, it was granted at your request. It's the official appeal process. Um, it says within the city code that this is an informal discussion, right? Like, everyone who receives a letter like this gets a chance to kind of give their part of why they think this shouldn't happen or provide any additional context, things like that. So, my role today is to listen to any information you would like to share related to this matter, um, provide you with, uh, like I said, an opportunity to offer any additional context or perspective related to what's outlined in the letter. Um, obviously aware of what you've shared, uh, publicly. Um, so this is your opportunity to do so as part of the process.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

Yeah.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Makes sense.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Um, I also want to acknowledge that, um, the encampment, parkland—merging those two things—particularly creates challenges to manage, right? So you have a lot of different city departments there. You have the Department of Safety Inspections, you have police, you have parks to a certain degree. So our responsibility overall is to ensure safety, respect, and access for everyone there. Um, so following this meeting, after we conclude, I'll review the information we provided today, and then I'll follow up on a decision regarding your appeal.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

Yeah, that sounds good.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Sound good?

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

Yeah.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

So, with that, I—I’ll turn it over to you all, um, just for any opening comments or things you want to share, uh, specific to what's outlined within the letter.

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

I think I'll—I'll start, if that's all right.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Yeah.

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

Um, I—I know this is informal, and so I'll try to be informal as well.

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

Um, uh, so you—you've outlined—should I call you director? What would you like me to call you?

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Call me [name redacted].

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

Okay. All right. Thank you. Uh, so [name redacted], [name redacted], um, thank you very much for having us. Uh, Josh called me up and, uh, he told me what was going on, and I wanted to see the information that he had, and, uh, I was curious. It's—it's a very unique case, as far as I'm concerned. Um, and, uh, I looked into a lot of it, and I—it seems to be an outlier, and, um, and I reviewed the letter, and that's why we're here, obviously, today. Um, our goal, I guess I would say, is that, uh, we talk through this, and we, um—I'm hoping this is a misunderstanding, and we can try to work something out so that Josh can continue doing what he does, um, which is a benefit, I believe, to the community and the people that he's trying to serve. Um, and, uh, but we're sort of at a loss. Um, the letter from you, you know, is two and a half pages, um, and it outlines some vague, um, accusations, um, and then cites a statute—or, I guess, not statute, an ordinance, a city ordinance, um, that he has violated. And, uh, based on these sort of general accusations in the letter, you know, he's getting this full punishment that's permitted—permitted under the municipal code. Um, I—I—I think I'd like to address the first one here: this, uh, unlicensed event at the park on April 11th. I think Josh has already tried to address some of that, and I'm hoping we could try to dispel that pretty quickly. Josh had no role in that. He was not tied to it. Um, he was not present. He was out of state. So I—I'm hoping that we can try to set that one aside and focus on the other stuff. Um, but, uh, if you have any questions on that, he'll ab—absolutely answer them. But to the extent that you're trying to pin any sort of involvement on him, that's—that's not him. That was not him. That was somebody else. Uh, and, uh, he was not in attendance, and he was not in the state. Um, as to the—I'm just sort of picking out some stuff in the letter here that we—I know we can address, and then we'll go to the stuff that we frankly can't address.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Sure.

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

Um, harassing, recording, profiting from vulnerable—vulnerable adults without their permission. Uh, my client disputes that.

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

Um, he does talk to people. A lot of them approach him because they know him. They know he's a nice guy, and he helps out a lot of the people in the community—uh, these communities, I guess, in the parks. Um, he, uh, provides them with some food, some water, things that they need. If they need a place to warm up, he'll allow them to jump in his car. Um, and more than anything, he's just providing them with, uh, a sense of hope, somebody to talk to, uh, if they're down on their luck. Um, but he is not filming anybody without their permission. He's not approaching people, uh, in—in a harassing way. And, uh, he's, uh, doing all the—like I said, most people approach him because they just know him by now. Um, and he's not interfering with their lifestyle. Um, to the extent that he's actually interacting with these people, it's—it's in a way to try to help them. Um, to the—the people he does record and, uh, put on, uh, the internet, he has the—their permission to do so, and we have some evidence of that if you'd like to see it. Um, that's in some of the videos that either are posted or that we can provide.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

The most recent ones, I just had somebody go down there independent from me and, uh, say, um, ‘Did you provide permission?’ And they said—they said, ‘Yeah.’

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

Yeah. And—and if these people don't want to talk to Josh, he walks away. He doesn't—he doesn't [unclear], to be clear. He—he doesn't film people, um, unprovoked or without their permission.

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

Um, so those are the two sort of actual, specific things we can talk about in this letter. The rest of the letter, um, disrupting the peace and the orderly operation of the park, I—we're kind of at a loss of how to combat that. Um, it—it's—I understand that those are—that's the language of the—the ordinance that, um, you were citing and therefore, uh, determining he has violated. Um, but we—we don't really know what that means. We don't have any specific incidents, dates, times, people involved, the reporters who reported this to the director and the office, um, or exactly what his conduct was that was so disorderly or unpeaceful. Um, so I—I'm hoping that we could maybe do a little back-and-forth on what actually the reports were, who made them. Um, you do cite that, uh, some parks operations staff, Department of Safety Inspections, some St. Paul Police Department. These people have all reported to—to you, uh, Mr. Director, and, um, we'd like to know who those people are, because nobody's talked to—to Josh at all about any of this stuff. He's never been approached by anybody in the city. He's never been told he shouldn't be doing anything, uh, that he's in violation of ordinance—ordinances, or just disturbing the peace or being a problem. Uh, frankly, he was blindsided by this letter. Um, and my understanding is he was, uh, text-messaged this letter from, uh, [city official's name redacted].

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

[City official's name redacted]?

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Either one.

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

Either. It's okay. He's not here. That's fine.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

I think it's [city official's name redacted].

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

Okay. Um, and, uh, so I—the first he got it was from—was from [city official's name redacted], and, uh, he—he didn't know what to make of it because he'd never heard that he was being a nuisance, so to speak. Um, so I—to the extent you have something specific we can address or that we could provide a counter to, uh, we would like to see that. We—we welcome it and—and, frankly, we'd sort of demand it under, um, some sort of due-process idea, um, because, uh, our hope is that we can talk through this and, um, you'd be willing to rescind this, um, clear my client's name, because it's sort of been dragged through the mud through a lot of this, and, um, we think it's completely unfair, and, uh, that's why we're here today. Um, so I—I'm hoping that opens up the door here and we can have a frank and friendly conversation to—to do what we can do before, uh, I don't know, before we have to get the lawyers involved.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Uh, do you want me to elaborate?

ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY:

Yeah.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Um, so a couple things. Um, I can just note—and I don't know residents' names—residents have claimed that there have been, um, issues with the filming, or giving—that, “I did not give permission, but yet I was still filmed,” or there was one instance where I think it was a sibling of one of the residents was upset, um, about you filming one of their sisters or something like that. That escalated maybe into a more heated conversation. I don't know.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

With me?

PARKS DIRECTOR:

I believe so.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

I—I never had a conversation with a sibling.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Yeah, a sibling, um, was in the parking lot, and there was an exchange between you both. So that was one. Um, I can understand on the event stuff, like, I—I feel like I am in the middle playing a lot of he-said-she-said of who's involved, right? Um, and it sounds like, for some of those names, there might be affiliation between some of those different groups. Um, maybe even some hearsay. Um, but trying to break that all down has been admittedly complicated. Um, so noting that—um, so I can see the confusion on the event. Um, but noting the previous instance, um, I believe, um, we can get you some documentation on that. I don't have it with me, but I can—it's public.

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

So, previous instance of what?

PARKS DIRECTOR:

The incident I just referenced with the sibling.

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

Okay.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

So I can get that. Um, can I just ask a question?

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

Yeah.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Like, and from a social-media standpoint, I don't know enough about this process.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

You can ask us anything about social media.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Yeah. Um, like, at the rate you're going, with the amount of followers you have, like, do you—is that classified, from your perspective, as commercial filming? Is that something?

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

No.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

No? Okay. Okay.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

That would be a [name redacted] question, but—but no, it's not.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Okay.

VIDEOGRAPHER:

No. No matter how big you are, even, like, at the MrBeast level, it would not be commercial filming.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

But, um, what's his level?

VIDEOGRAPHER:

I think you have to hit—

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

They call—they—they call me Mr. Least.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Mr.—you're Mr. Least.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

That's what people—yeah. I'm like, ‘Okay, well, you know.’

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

Um, yeah, but, uh, no, it would not be commercial filming.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Have there been other events there, um, whether your involvement, um, where we're doing, like, supply drop-offs? Just knowing that there's a lot of agencies and others there, is that something that you partake in from time to time there?

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

No, I do everything independently.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Okay.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

Yeah.

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

I would say that there has been a time where, in fact, you were working with the St. Paul Sheriff's Department. You were there at the same time.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

Yeah. Well, they actually asked me to introduce them to, like, a few people.

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

And you—they were working hand in hand, more or less.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

Yeah, it was a few weeks ago with the sheriffs.

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

And certainly the sheriffs did not approach Josh at the time and tell him he was doing something inappropriate.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

No. Well, they wanted—they took a picture, and they said, ‘Can you introduce us to some people, because we want to hand out some backpacks?’ And I said, ‘Yeah,’ and, like, hopefully change the narrative about, um, sheriffs being bad, and they're here to help. So that kind of helped them and tried to shape them, and, like, you know, they're doing good, and they did this because they want to do good for the city, not divide, you know?

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Yeah, for sure.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

Which was pretty cool.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Still trying to get over that [name redacted]'s in this room.

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

I—I didn't know if it was going to be the director or some sort of deputy.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

No, it's all good. Just fucking humorous, in a not-humorous situation. Um, anything else you want to relay from your side?

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

Um, I—I see he's got a team with him, some people that could, you know, support him, back him on this. I—I mean, if you have questions you want to pose to them, or if you guys have statements you'd like to make—

PARKS DIRECTOR:

I—I think—I mean, it would just be helpful to hear, from a process standpoint, like, when you engage someone on film, what that looks like. Are they signing something? Is it, like, ‘Hey, we want to do a—’? Is it predetermined, like, ‘We want to do this with you, and here's what it is’? Like, just knowing the mechanics of that is just helpful to me in general.

VIDEOGRAPHER:

Yeah, it depends on the video. Like, a lot of the content that I do is the third-person content, and there are cases, like, where we have done a video with somebody and, like, filmed an interaction. But we would never go and post that interaction online without first telling them, ‘Hey, this was a, um, social experiment. Um, are you comfortable with sharing this story online?’ Like, it's never—we've—we've never posted anybody online without their consent. So, as far as it goes at Pig's Eye, we would never—we're always asking people before we film.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Where do you think the narrative would spew from residents that, like, you were organizing that bike race or concert or others? Is it just—you think it's hearsay, or, like, what?

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

You know, I don't…

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

We're talking about the April 11th thing?

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Yeah. Yeah. Because it's, like—and that's where, I mean, it filtered through DSI and others, that, you know—and just to be clear, like, banning or barring is a tool that we use sometimes, right?

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

Yeah, of course.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

And—and sometimes it's used as a mitigation effort or effort to reset on some things with specific individuals that are on property, right?

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

Yeah, and you didn't want it to get out of hand before…

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Yeah. And sometimes it's a—it's a 12-year-old kid that broke a window at a rec center or something and needs a break. I mean, it's very situational when we use these things, right? Um, so just providing some perspective. You're obviously very different, just given the following and what you do every day, right? So it's just—that's why it's garnered the attention, obviously, and other things. So, um, just providing some context there. But, yeah, that—I'm just curious of how that may have skewed up. And, like, there are other things that I can, you know, share that is considered public information, like anonymous emails that I'm getting about conduct and things like that. It's, um—that come after the fact, after this letter came. So, like, I just—it's interesting to me, um, and I don't know who to respond to because they're anonymous. Um, so—

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

Why don't—why don't you address why you think your name was tied to this?

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

I really—I don't even—I don't—I mean, the people that are close to me know I was going to be in Florida, and the people who weren't close to me didn't know I was going to be in Florida. So it had to have been somebody who wasn't close to me saying this, who doesn't know me, who doesn't know. I mean, what are the odds that, you know, every, like, three years I go on a family vacation, and it happened to be on that same date that, you know—and this was booked back on January 2nd. The—you know, this event thing, I don't even know. Was there an event, or—or was there something?

PARKS DIRECTOR:

There ended up being something, which I think involved live music and a rapper or something.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

I can't remember, but, um—

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

And I saw that online, but I saw that at a church. Was there, like—because I think—

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

I mean, [name redacted], did you go to Pig's Eye?

VIDEOGRAPHER:

Sunday?

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

Was it Sunday?

VIDEOGRAPHER:

Uh, yeah. So I was—I was down there on Sunday the 11th.

JOSH'S WIFE:

The 12th.

VIDEOGRAPHER:

The 12th?

JOSH'S WIFE:

It was Saturday. It was the 11th or something.

VIDEOGRAPHER:

Maybe—maybe it was Saturday. Whatever—whatever event, the concert at the church was, whatever day that was, I was there the morning of that, and there were several, like, outreach groups there, uh, serving food to the homeless, and there was, um, people up with a microphone and, like, a speaker giving their testimonies. And, um, I believe [outreach organizer's name redacted] does this, like, weekly, who go out there with a trailer and speakers and give a little service up there.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

It was [name redacted].

VIDEOGRAPHER:

Yeah.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

Oh, yeah, he does it every Sunday.

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

Saturday. Yeah, this was Saturday, though.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

I don't know.

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

I—I don't—I—I hate to dwell on this sort of issue just because my client's really had no involvement with it.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

Yeah.

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

To the extent that he's trying to be punished for it, I—I would hope that we can move on from that. But, um, I—I think the long and the short of it, he doesn't know why he got tied to it. I mean, except that he's a frequent visitor of Pig's Eye. I think that's fair to say.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

Yeah, probably.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Uh, rappers [performers' names redacted]. I don't know—do those names ring a bell?

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

Yeah, I saw it at the flyer for the church thing—

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Having a concert with stage, speakers, other stuff.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

So, just—that's what came after the fact, anonymous.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

Yeah, that's what I heard as well. Um, and with the text messages with [city official's name redacted], I asked how I could help and, like, how I could find the person, um, who was doing this.

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

Yeah.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

And I never—

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

Thank you for pointing that out. So, you do have in your letter also that he sort of refused to help or provide any information, and I—do you have a copy of the email or the text between [city official's name redacted] and Josh?

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Yeah, I do.

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

Okay. Yeah. I—so I—it seemed, in my reading of those texts, [name redacted], is that he was trying to offer some help, but, uh, also denying involvement. And I, um, [city official's name redacted] seemed sort of appreciative of—of the idea that Josh was looking around to see what he could figure out, but it seemed very clear that Josh was saying, ‘I—this isn't me.’

PARKS DIRECTOR:

And again, for context, I just want to, like, explain a couple things. DSI manages encampments throughout the city, right? This encampment just happens to be on parkland, right? So there is some—some co-working that has to involve, uh, myself, uh, and him, or other points of contact within each department. Um, so I just want you to know why my name's on this letter, um, and how these processes flow.

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

Is [city official's name redacted] in charge of that, uh, Pig's Eye encampment?

PARKS DIRECTOR:

He's—he's in charge of encampment management across the city.

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

Got it.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

Yeah. And I know there's a lot of, like, crossover stuff, so it's probably—I knew a lot of it would probably just be, like, hearsay or stuff that's—

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Yeah. And honestly, I think we met, what, three years ago, maybe at Rice Park? I—and, um, I—we've had a brief exchange, but I've seen your stuff.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

Yeah.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Um, just know that you've had a presence in park spaces and other things, so I'm aware, just to provide context.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

It's been, uh, three—probably three years, four years, probably.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. And then, you know, whether it be at parks or somewhere else, um, yeah, it just all depends on the situation. It's all situational.

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

I mean, is there any other, um—you—you say you've got some anonymous emails and stuff. I just—are—are you—is it your position that you can maintain a—a ban based on sort of rumors and anonymous complaints?

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Well, I'm saying these came after the fact.

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

Okay, after the letter, okay.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Just noting that. Um, you know, and like I said at the beginning of this discussion, like, I'm going to take what I—what comes out of this meeting and attempt to make an informed decision.

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

So, and we—we welcome the opportunity to work with you on that. I mean, whether we can have some sort of, you know, not necessarily a settlement-agreement kind of idea, but some sort of consent decree where, you know, if you have suggestions for how Josh can do what he does, uh, in—in a—in a way that you don't find offensive, uh, we would be very open to that sort of discussion. Um, uh, and, uh, Josh has people at these camps that he—he—he helps in ways without even recording it or, you know, raising awareness. They're friends of his, and he'd like to go back and talk to those people, but he can't do that right now without, you know, violating the ban, which subjects him to criminal stuff. Sorry. Go ahead.

ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY:

Yeah. No, I just could talk about this a little bit. Um, so, yeah, I mean, the banning process, like [name redacted] said, is a tool. It's under ordinance. It's essentially our process to, you know, put a pause on an individual doing activity in parkland in order to, you know, either protect the park space, individuals at parks, et cetera. Um, I—I heard you, you know, just mention the criminal aspect of it. Obviously, it doesn't get to criminal, you know, a misdemeanor, unless somebody is violating that. You know, we're—this is an administrative tool to, you know, help make sure that we can keep our parks orderly. Um, obviously, we're able to ban based on a breach-of-the-peace kind of violation of parks rules and regulations. I think, you know, we can keep that conversation, like, you know, the process is: you're banned; we provide due process by notice and an opportunity to be heard. This is your opportunity to be heard, which is why we're having it, um, you know, to have this conversation. And then the next step would be, you know, [name redacted] can make a decision and provide that. And then also, I think it's very helpful to, you know, be able to look at the parks rules and regulations, which we have a copy of, that I—I—I think should be able to, um, you know, kind of pro—provide some guidance on how to best do your work in parkland, you know, whenever you're able to do so.

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

Maybe this is something you wouldn't tell me, [name redacted], but is it—is it common for you to, um, or for the department to issue the most stringent and, uh, heavy-handed punishment on, like, a first instance, just to reset?

ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY:

So, I—I mean, I couldn't give you any statistics on that. Um, the discretion is in, you know, [name redacted]'s court. That is the director of the department.

ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we have doc—we have policies, we have guidance, um, but the ordinance gives a director discretion to make that determination.

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

Yeah, it's fair. That's what it is, I guess.

ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY:

That's what it is.

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

Um, yeah. Uh, I—and I—I heard you mention, you know, sort of some of the—the key words in the ordinance, disturbing the peace, and sort of—and I—I'm still sort of waiting to hear what it is he did that disturbed the peace. And, um, maybe—maybe that's sort of for you to consider, us not to know, but I think he's entitled to hear that.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

I think you've made your point. I think you—you've, uh, communicated that you were not affiliated with this event, right? Um, which was an unpermitted concert, whatever it was. Um, and, you know, for whatever occurred with that interaction, which I can follow up on, uh, regarding the sibling, you know, I'm happy to send that information for your review.

ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY:

Yeah. I would just say that—I mean, that is, you know, the language in the letter about harassing. That is where we tie to that disturbance of the peace, not necessarily the videoing. Um, so, um, you know, obviously that's a—a factual analysis based on information we had, which is why it's helpful to gain additional facts.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

Yeah. Um, did they go up to my car, or how did the—who—and who was the person? Do you guys know the name? Or, because I don't remember having a confrontation about someone's sibling, or—

PARKS DIRECTOR:

I can—the police report is public information.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

Yeah, we have the—

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Uh, I can—I can send it.

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

Good.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

I don't—I don't know names off the top of my head.

JOSH LILJENQUIST:

Yeah, that's okay.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Anything else?

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

Um…

PARKS DIRECTOR:

I'm thinking I would be able to follow up on this one pretty quick.

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

So, the one incident you're talking about, as I was saying, with the sibling?

PARKS DIRECTOR:

No, I'm talking about the appeal—

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

Oh, the whole thing.

ATTORNEY FOR JOSH:

Okay. Yeah, I was—I was going to ask, sort of, a conclusion, if we're concluding, uh, what sort of happens at this point? I mean, how quickly can Josh hopefully go back to what he's doing, or, um, is this going to be drawn out, I guess?

ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY:

No. So this—I mean, this is the kind of final step of—of the process dictated by the ordinance. The ordinance doesn't say a ton, but it says, you know, we have an appeal hearing with the director, and then the director can, you know, choose to affirm, to rescind, to reconsider length, et cetera. Um, that doesn't give a timeline, you know, like a normal court would give a timeline, but it sounds like, from conversations with [name redacted], he's comfortable providing that by next week.

PARKS DIRECTOR:

Yeah, for sure.